It is very popular to promote experiences over buying tangible possessions right now. It seems universal to find bloggers recommending a more minimal lifestyle. The world almost seems to be divided into two groups. The smart group is focused on experiences, they are the Marie Kondo, zen minimalists who have one spork per person and wash their only set of clothes nightly. The materialistic group, on the other hand, comes back from daily shopping trips with their SUV’s piled full of new shoes, clothes, electronics and lawn gnomes. And it is a given that the smart people are on the minimalist side of the playing field while the other team is hopelessly in debt and unhappy, despite their many under used toys.
I don’t accept that at all. That’s just an exercise in seeing who can build the flimsiest straw-man for the opposing view point. Before I jump into what seems wrong with the classic minimalist argument let me put myself in context. I’m financially independent and I retired early, at least slightly early, four years ago. My wife was a stay at home mom and our three millennial kids are grown and gone now. We have no debt, a paid for house and three cars between my wife and myself. But I also have a Polaris RZR off road vehicle, a bass fishing boat, a country club membership, cable TV and pretty much every streaming service available. We have nice computers, four iPads and I’ve got a $1,399 smartphone with an unlimited plan. My wife and I have maybe ten tennis racquets between us, probably 15 fishing rods and reels and a bunch of pickle ball equipment. We have top of the line hiking equipment and outdoor wear suitable from -20 to 104 deg F. We have great running shoes, trail running shoes, tennis shoes and hiking shoes along with all our other day to day shoes. We have a shop with all kinds of power, garden and hand tools and a $5,000 lawnmower And we are putting the final details together on an overseas ten day vacation this year that will cost the two of us $20,000. By my estimation we have a lot of stuff and are also spending a lot of time and money on experiences.
So what about the arguments for extreme minimalism? The concept that removing clutter simplifies your life is one of the main ones. Yet with all our things, everything is in its place in our home. There is zero clutter. We are both very neat, we do not lay things around. When we gather up our stuff to go play tennis or go fishing it is all in one place and not in the way. After all we have fifteen rooms for two people, there is lots of room to put things so they are not in the way. When we get home we put it right back where we got it.
Why so many tennis racquets? I think I said we had ten. That sounds excessive, right? Its not. Like most activities there is more to tennis than you would guess if you aren’t a player or if you only play at a light recreational level. My wife and I are good players who compete annually in leagues that can lead all the way up to national championships, though we haven’t gotten that far yet. Maintaining proficiency at that level requires changing your equipment as new technology comes around and as you grow older. You simply have to adjust your game play and equipment to match your changing physical condition. At any one time I need three or four racquets that are identical because my topspin breaks the strings after a few sets and so I can keep a dry handle on the racquet in the summer. Generally we are also trying out something newer to offset tennis elbow and other ailments. You could go all Kondo for tennis and play with just one racquet but you’d be sitting at home most of the time waiting for it to be restrung, and you’d pretty much lose most of your matches. So you tell me, are all those tennis racquets possessions, or just the price of admission to be able to generate all the experiences of winning and losing tournaments and fellowship time with our tennis buddies? Are they things or experiences? It isn’t clear to me.
And that points out the central flaw in the experience vs things debate. There is no bright line between experiences and things. Let me use another example, say you want to have what is arguably a very elite experience. Climbing Mount Everest would be a great experience for some people. It is risky, it is rewarding and it puts you in a very small group of people. It must be a pretty good experience to attract as many as it does, especially considering a fairly high percentage of them die from the attempt. And it will cost you four months and at least $40,000. Very few people would throw that in the frugal or minimalist corner. But it is clearly an experience and not a material thing. You could rent everything you need for that experience so that there wasn’t a single possession involved. But did you buy an experience or was it really a “thing” to climb that mountain?
Maybe you want to start running. The very first thing you need to do is to buy a pair of running shoes. Those range from around $50 to $175 in most cases. You have to get lucky and find last year’s discontinued models to get decent shoes for $50, but it is possible. Lets just say you find a comfortable pair for $65. Well, what is that expense categorized as? Shoes are possessions, but running is an experience. And a dirt cheap one at that. Same kind of problem, no clear line of demarcation.
But to be fair let me serve up what sounds like the ultimate softball pitch. How about buying a Rolex wristwatch? That’s a thing right? A time keeping device that is less accurate than a thirty dollar Timex but that can easily cost $20,000. Is that a thing or an experience? It is a thing if you could care less about fancy watches but what if living that Rolex lifestyle was your lifetime dream, as it is for some? Then aren’t they really just buying a lifestyle, or trying to? And a lifestyle is experience.
I suppose the only person who matters in deciding what something is, a piece of stuff, or a tool to build an experience, is you. What does that thing mean to you? Why is it important? I think we are all pretty judgy when it comes to what others decide to spend money on. I have wealthy friends with houses at the lake or at resort locations. Since I could care less about having a second house to take care of I tend to judge that as wasteful. But they have large extended families with lots of kids and grandkids and those attractive locations draw those people together and give them, guess what? Great experiences together. Why should I judge that as wasteful?
I could go through the same exercise with our off road vehicle, our fishing equipment and our electronics but it would turn out the same. There are experiential reasons for having those things. In fact the only reason we have any of those possessions is to leverage them to have great experiences together. But a $1,399 smartphone, what about that? Well that’s for my profitable side gigs, not to show off. It is my internet hot spot when I travel and my electronic note taking device. Having paid side gigs is an experience that adds to my life in retirement a great deal and one that adds to our retirement income.
As for me, this thought exercise has made me feel a little bit guilty about judging others for spending on things that look like they are just wasteful or are excessive possessions. Perhaps they make possible life changing experiences for that person, something I do not understand from the outside looking in. But something that is very real to them. I’m going to try not to do that going forward.
How about you, do you think possessions and experiences are totally separate and easy to define?
Or do you think what looks like a material thing to you might represent a treasured experience for someone else?
If you aren’t cluttered should you still declutter?
Are hobbies that don’t require a lot of equipment, like yoga, better than hobbies that do, like skiing?
As usual if you do not see a comment box just click on the title of the post!
i think you know that i am the stand-off-ish type to these trends. go ahead and judge me! i want you to do it because i don’t care and i hope it drives a person with delicate sensibilities nuts that we buy so much wine! i own a tuxedo too, a nice one. i don’t know when i’ll need/wear it next but i want that person in the public to be concerned that those 400 bucks spend in 1999 could be compounded to $?????? if invested in VTSAX by now! i know i wasn’t put on this earth to just try and survive.
in other words, i agree with what you have written.
I knew we were separated at birth Freddy! We drink much wine as well and I also own my own tuxedo. Thanks for the support!
To me having things that add value to my life – call it fun, usefulness, happiness etc – are good things to have. So some folks have more than others. In other words, if watching lots of TV makes someone happy, then a few TVs will make them happy. Me, I like outdoor sports as you know. As much “stuff” as you listed in this post, I’m willing to bet I have way more than you!
I have 6 bikes, 7 climbing ropes, 5 sets of crampons, 3 tennis rackets, 2 stand up paddle boards, 5 tents, 5 sleeping bags… I could go on. But here’s the thing – I use all of them!! I think the way most people get into trouble with “stuff” is that they buy it to make themselves feel good or to aspire to be something they’re not. Buying a full set of rock climbing gear does not make you a rock climber. Learning to rock climb does. You have to see if you like it first, then buy the stuff. It’s like the the cliche young fashionable woman who has 100+ pairs of shoes and hasn’t even worn most of them. As crazy as that sounds, that’s common with men and woman and all sorts of “stuff”. They buy for therapy, or to aspire to be something they’re not. That’s what most of us PF bloggers are talking about when we target the “stuff crowd. And I’m convinced it’s the majority.
Great post!
Agreed, mostly I buy replacement stuff or things that have aged out to much better technology. I think people like us, who have outdoor hobbies are judged sometimes by people with equipmentless hobbies. You might just have me beat but I do have a lot of fishing stuff!
And as for retail therapy, I’d rather see the dentist than go shopping for entertainment, yet I knew a guy who could spend a whole day looking at dress shoes and be content.
I enjoy gardening and boy does that take a lot of equipment- shovels, pots, gloves, seeds, soil, compost and on and on. I personally don’t worry at all what others think of my things or lack thereof. I view gardening as more of an experience and I am thankful that physically I am still able to do it. I also enjoy helping others with their gardening.
It helps keep me healthy and creates beauty for everyone in the area to enjoy.
I don’t see a downside. I don’t have the funds to go crazy so I don’t worry about that. I purchase seeds, potting soil, fertilizer and a few plants and maybe a new pot every year- Maybe $150. I call that cheap entertainment!
I’m sensing a lot of support along the lines of what you are saying. Some experiential activities take a good bit of equipment, tools, clothing, gear or whatever. And that doesn’t make them an example of runaway consumerism. Because it is the experience that matters, not the things we may need to have that experience. Gardening is a wonderful example!
Terrifically said Steve.. as usual. It is human nature to look at others with different needs, tastes, experiences and choices and devalue those things when they don’t line up with our views of the world… I don’t play tennis, so it is easy for me to say that ten tennis rackets is waaay too many, On the other hand I love design and useful design objects (spent most of my professional life in that space) and have something like 10-12 watches at any one time (I don’t actually know because I buy and sell) ranging in value from $50 to $10,000. Most people would consider that a waste—I love it and get great enjoyment learning about their intricacies and design. My watches are useful, useless, wasteful, investments, objects and experiences! I remember friends and colleagues who would learn that my partner and I and our family had spent our holidays in Paris or the south of Spain and lament that they ‘could never afford that’ with a level of resentment in their voice. All the while living in a home with half as many people and twice as much space as we did. Life is about choices—some are clearly good and some are clearly bad—but most of them are neither of those things, they are only good or bad for me or you within our contexts, values, needs and goals for life. This simple truth seems to escape most folks. The FIRE crowd is super-supportive of certain behaviors and choices and extremely judgmental of others. I’m really happy that some people find happiness and joy in minimalist living, good for them— but not for me. I’m happy some people are able to stop working for others at 30 or 35 or 40. I’m equally happy that I had most of the jobs I’ve had and the experiences and learnings (and pay) that went with those jobs. I’m 55, leaving my C-level role for at least a couple of years off and maybe forever. I don’t regret that I didn’t do this at 45–I would have missed so much that I consider to be important. The key, I think is intentionality— understanding what drives us and gives us meaning and not just drifting along—whatever those choices are.
I’m glad I used the Rolex example Jack. I thought it would catch readers off guard because I felt that most of the people in this space probably don’t purchase ultra high quality watches. But to me it is much like my having the absolute highest tech smart phone on the market. As an engineer, and one who stayed very technical even when I was primarily managing people, having superb tech tools is part of who I am, its my identity and one of the primary ways I like to experience life. But it could be watches, it could be fine apparel or sports cars. Or gardening tools or having a great tractor if I was a gentleman farmer. And for at least one guy I knew it really was dress shoes. I almost didn’t publish this post. I was afraid it would not resonate with anyone but I’m glad I did. I uncovered some of my own prejudice in writing and revising it as I went. I share your feelings about work. I’m glad I worked nearly to conventional retirement age, many of my life goals wouldn’t have been attainable outside of work and I think it was a great experience. I think you said what I was trying to say in my post much better than I in your comment! Thank you.
You certainly have toys in areas that add value and experience to your lives. No bones about it. That’s a good thing. You have hobbies in your slightly early retirement. The Rolex can only be appreciated by the digital citizens, i.e. the old school analog folks. Again, it’s something you value, so why not. You’ll pass it down to the kids.
I’ve got to call you out on the $5K lawnmower. You haven’t outsourced that with all the travel you’re doing?
For me, I outsourced Chicago area grass cutting years ago and it’s still the best $25/per week I spend during lawn season. The rest of the garden and yard getting more attention since I don’t have to cut grass,
The point of striving for and achieving financial independence is all about creating and prioritizing your time and things that you value.
For me, I have everything I need, and some of the things that I want.
There is, however, the White 2020 Corvette Stingray sitting in my online shopping cart. Wanting and delayed gratification is enjoyable for some,
You only think you got me on the $5,000 lawnmower Francis! Actually I never cut the grass. The lawnmower and the power tools belong to my wife. Raised on a working farm she insisted on handling the lawn and garden chores herself! In return she can get whatever she wants in the way of equipment. We have a couple of acres with the house hence the zero radius turn mower.
I’m a long time minimalist married to a semi-hoarder, and it’s a weekly discussion for us on how we’re going to balance what we have. We both agree we love having a clean, tidy, organized and orderly space, which has guided us in terms of how much to keep in any given area of the home. As long as everything has a home, it can stay. If I come across an item and neither of us can really identify where it belongs, it’s likely going to Goodwill.
That sounds imminently logical. I tend to have a couple of places where I throw things until they fill up and then I end up throwing almost all of it away or taking it to Goodwill. But since they are out of site shelves in my closet they don’t feel like clutter. And sometimes I find myself retrieving something from that stash that I do end up needing, but not often.
I skew toward the minimalist side of things, but I definitely agree with what you’re saying. If the items have a purpose that align with our values, ie. it’s not ‘clutter,’ then it’s fine with us. I have quite a few tools, because I like building stuff, as well as a suite of stainless steel brewing equipment. My wife has a small glassblowing workshop, because that’s important to her. Not to mention the flock of chickens and their sprawling living quarters.
If I had to add one caveat, it would be this: I am not willing to work as many years as is necessary to accumulate the many things you’ve mentioned. I plan to trade in my last 20 high earning years and forego the fishing boat and the country club membership as a result. But that’s just personal preference, and either choice is OK.
I can’t argue there, my job was a lot of fun and I considered it a favorite hobby more than work. I know that’s very rare nowadays, probably it has always been rare. But because of that I worked a lot longer than I needed and still had a lot of recreation time due to no commute in our small town and not much pressure to work long hours. The country club is something we really don’t use, I’m not a golfer, its more of a donation to keep the club there for the quality of life in the town. It would be a crazy expenditure if we didn’t have more money than we need. It is still crazy I guess and we may drop it one of these days.